---
title: "Non-Traditional Backgrounds at Auth0"
description: "Formal education is no longer the norm when it comes to tech. The Auth0 family comes from all walks of life!"
authors:
  - name: "Sam Julien"
    url: "https://auth0.com/blog/authors/sam-julien/"
date: "Apr 22, 2019"
category: "Culture,Values,Diversity"
tags: ["culture", "diversity"]
url: "https://auth0.com/blog/non-traditional-backgrounds-at-auth0/"
---

# Non-Traditional Backgrounds at Auth0


When I was growing up, I really wanted to become a programmer, but I assumed that the only way to do that was to go straight to college after high school and get a four-year degree in Computer Science. I was very wrong, but I wasn't alone in thinking that.

My colleague [Kim Maida](https://auth0.com/blog/authors/kim-maida/), Auth0’s Community and Technical Content Manager, recently asked a simple question about non-traditional backgrounds on Twitter that went viral:

<AmpContent>
  <include src="TweetQuote" quoteText="Anyone in tech come from a non-traditional background? I have a degree in computery-stuff, but before that, I got a degree in Animal Behavior &amp; Neurobiology. I love hearing about other non-traditional backgrounds! If you are in tech and came from different origins, please share! &mdash; Kim Maida 🦖🥑 (@KimMaida)"/>

</AmpContent>

<NonAmpContent>

  <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Anyone in tech come from a non-traditional background?<br><br>I have a degree in computery-stuff, but before that, I got a degree in Animal Behavior &amp; Neurobiology. I love hearing about other non-traditional backgrounds! If you are in tech and came from different origins, please share!</p>&mdash; Kim Maida 🦖🥑 (@KimMaida) <a href="https://twitter.com/KimMaida/status/1096161084006903812?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 14, 2019</a></blockquote>
  <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

</NonAmpContent>

As a self-taught developer with a background in liberal arts and finance, I loved reading all of the replies. Here are some of my favorites:

[Jen Looper](https://twitter.com/jenlooper/), senior dev at Progress and founder of [Vue Vixens](https://vuevixens.org/):

<AmpContent>
  <include src="TweetQuote" quoteText="Ph.D. in Medieval French Literature. Use it every day. 😍 &mdash; Jen Looper (@jenlooper)"/>

</AmpContent>

<NonAmpContent>

  <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ph.D. in Medieval French Literature. Use it every day. 😍 &mdash; Jen Looper (@jenlooper) <a href="https://twitter.com/jenlooper/status/1096176100194045956?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 14, 2019</a></blockquote>
  <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

</NonAmpContent>

This exchange between [Ayşegül Yönet](https://twitter.com/AysSomething) at Microsoft and [Ben Lesh](https://twitter.com/BenLesh), Angular and RxJS core team member from Google:

<AmpContent>
  <include src="TweetQuote" quoteText="Yay! I was an Illustration major that took exactly zero computer-related courses. All of my classes were in fine art and (non-computer aided) graphic design. &mdash; Ben Lesh 🧢🏋️‍♂️💻🎨 (@BenLesh)"/>

</AmpContent>

<NonAmpContent>

  <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yay! I was an Illustration major that took exactly zero computer-related courses. All of my classes were in fine art and (non-computer aided) graphic design.</p>&mdash; Ben Lesh 🧢🏋️‍♂️💻🎨 (@BenLesh) <a href="https://twitter.com/BenLesh/status/1096223005225627648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 15, 2019</a></blockquote>
  <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

</NonAmpContent>

[Rob Wormald](https://twitter.com/robwormald), Angular core team member at Google:

<AmpContent>
  <include src="TweetQuote" quoteText="I worked at Best Buy, and then as a Mac Genius before I got anywhere near code at age 26. &mdash; Rob Wormald (@robwormald)"/>

</AmpContent>

<NonAmpContent>

  <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I worked at Best Buy, and then as a Mac Genius before I got anywhere near code at age 26.</p>&mdash; Rob Wormald (@robwormald) <a href="https://twitter.com/robwormald/status/1096453668566528000?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 15, 2019</a></blockquote>
  <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

</NonAmpContent>

[Ward Bell](https://twitter.com/wardbell), President of IdeaBlade and [Fashion Icon](https://avatars1.githubusercontent.com/u/129061?s=460&v=4):

<AmpContent>
  <include src="TweetQuote" quoteText="Does Sociology count as non-traditional? Never took a CS course ever.  But these days I think I’m more likely to approach the field intellectually than the average developer I meet. &mdash; Ward Bell (@wardbell)"/>

</AmpContent>

<NonAmpContent>

  <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Does Sociology count as non-traditional? Never took a CS course ever.  But these days I think I’m more likely to approach the field intellectually than the average developer I meet.</p>&mdash; Ward Bell (@wardbell) <a href="https://twitter.com/wardbell/status/1096241990100869120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 15, 2019</a></blockquote>
  <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

</NonAmpContent>

And possibly my favorite story from [Elisabete Baker](https://twitter.com/Elisabete):

<AmpContent>
  <include src="TweetQuote" quoteText="In my early twenties I worked as a deckhand on tallships and later trained/worked as a wooden boatbuilder. When I finally went to college, I double-majored in Biology and Computer Science. I love my unique background and benefit from it now as an engineer. 💜 &mdash; elisabete.codes (@Elisabete)"/>

</AmpContent>

<NonAmpContent>

  <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In my early twenties I worked as a deckhand on tallships and later trained/worked as a wooden boatbuilder. <br><br>When I finally went to college, I double-majored in Biology and Computer Science. <br><br>I love my unique background and benefit from it now as an engineer. 💜 <a href="https://t.co/3NbCjE0YP4">pic.twitter.com/3NbCjE0YP4</a></p>&mdash; elisabete.codes (@Elisabete) <a href="https://twitter.com/Elisabete/status/1096339938956722176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 15, 2019</a></blockquote>
  <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

</NonAmpContent>

These replies to Kim's tweet are fun and encouraging, but are they indicative of a wider trend?

## The Need for Non-Traditional Developers

Kim’s not the only one to have struck this chord with people. There’s a growing trend of being vocal about non-traditional backgrounds in tech. For example, [Dr. Donna Malayeri](https://twitter.com/lindydonna) had a huge response to this tweet:

<AmpContent>
  <include src="TweetQuote" quoteText="👏 You don't need a formal degree to succeed in tech. <br><br>👏 You don&#39;t need a CS degree to be a great product manager. 👏 Degrees are not magic! Hard work, intellectual curiosity, and good teamwork win every time. Sincerely, someone with a fancy degree. 💫 &mdash; Dr. Donna Malayeri comma PhD (@lindydonna)"/>

</AmpContent>

<NonAmpContent>

  <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">👏 You don&#39;t need a formal degree to succeed in tech. <br><br>👏 You don&#39;t need a CS degree to be a great product manager. <br><br>👏 Degrees are not magic! Hard work, intellectual curiosity, and good teamwork win every time. <br><br>Sincerely, someone with a fancy degree. 💫</p>&mdash; Dr. Donna Malayeri comma PhD (@lindydonna) <a href="https://twitter.com/lindydonna/status/1095878354023129088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 14, 2019</a></blockquote>
  <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

</NonAmpContent>

As a result, she followed up with an experiment:

<AmpContent>
  <include src="TweetQuote" quoteText="To prove a point: <br><br>Please RT if you don&#39;t have a CS degree and you have a job in tech. &mdash; Dr. Donna Malayeri comma PhD (@lindydonna)"/>

</AmpContent>

<NonAmpContent>

  <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">To prove a point: <br><br>Please RT if you don&#39;t have a CS degree and you have a job in tech. <a href="https://t.co/AuGi4yxM5Q">https://t.co/AuGi4yxM5Q</a></p>&mdash; Dr. Donna Malayeri comma PhD (@lindydonna) <a href="https://twitter.com/lindydonna/status/1096099295105736704?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 14, 2019</a></blockquote>
  <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

</NonAmpContent>

Finally, [Ashley McNamara](https://twitter.com/ashleymcnamara) from Microsoft shared her own experience as a self-taught developer:

<AmpContent>
  <include src="TweetQuote" quoteText="Five years ago a well known person in the tech community &amp; author of books you&#39;ve probably read, spoke to a group of women just learning to code. <br><br>She told us that none of us would succeed in tech without a CS degree and all I want to say is, &#39;Thank you for under estimating me&#39; &mdash; Ashley McNamara (@ashleymcnamara)"/>

</AmpContent>

<NonAmpContent>

  <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Five years ago a well known person in the tech community &amp; author of books you&#39;ve probably read, spoke to a group of women just learning to code. <br><br>She told us that none of us would succeed in tech without a CS degree and all I want to say is, &#39;Thank you for under estimating me&#39;</p>&mdash; Ashley McNamara (@ashleymcnamara) <a href="https://twitter.com/ashleymcnamara/status/1101222970796601344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 28, 2019</a></blockquote>
  <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

</NonAmpContent>

The thousands of engagements with these threads are indicative of the growing gap between available tech jobs and people graduating with computer science degrees. In a 2013 blog post by the Obama administration called [Computer Science is for Everyone!](https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2013/12/11/computer-science-everyone), the The Bureau of Labor Statistics projected that by 2020 there will be 1.4 million computer-science-related jobs available but only 400,000 computer science graduates.

<include src="TweetQuote" quoteText="According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, by 2020 there will be 1.4 million computer-science-related jobs available but only 400,000 computer science graduates."/>

In 2015, [The Atlas](https://www.theatlas.com/) published an interesting chart showing college computer science graduates compared to open computing jobs in the US:

![Atlas chart of computer science graduates vs. open jobs.](https://images.ctfassets.net/23aumh6u8s0i/7mOfP6Vo05lCMc4Vq7G9eD/38e25de3743ec2b38ee5ff5bab4a0742/atlas-comp-sci-chart)
[Source](https://www.theatlas.com/charts/B1rFqVkjl)

We're even ahead of schedule for the 2013 prediction. In 2017, there were already 1.3 million software jobs, according to [Trilogy Education Services](https://www.trilogyed.com/press-room/tech-where-the-jobs-and-demand-are/). [Code.org](https://code.org/promote) asserts that 58% of all new jobs in STEM are in computing, but only 10% of STEM graduates are in Computer Science. Finally, the [Occupational Outlook Handbook from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm#tab-6) states that employment of software developers is projected to grow 24 percent from 2016 to 2026.

## Non-Traditional Backgrounds at Auth0

When I started college at the University of Florida, I was originally a computer science major. I had always wanted to learn to code and I assumed that college was the only way to learn. Back then, there was no YouTube, no [Codecademy](https://www.codecademy.com/), no [Treehouse](https://teamtreehouse.com/), and no [Pluralsight](https://www.pluralsight.com/). There was also no Twitter to tell me about what it meant to be “self-taught” or even what a “web developer” was. So, I trundled off to college hoping that a degree in computer science was the answer.

Somewhere in between finishing up Calculus II and signing up for Differential Equations during my freshman year, my hope began to fade. According to the computer science curriculum, I wasn’t even slated to take a computer class until my junior year. Until then, it was math, math, more math, and some physics for good measure. I decided to switch to liberal arts, where I eventually got a degree in religion (a hybrid of history and sociology). Along the way, I continued to work my way through tutorials on PHP, HTML, and CSS to do a little bit of web design as a hobby. I was convinced, though, that since I had given up on formal computer science education, my dreams of becoming a “professional programmer” were dead. 

I couldn't have been more wrong. After five years in financial sales and operations, I longed to learn and create again. With the help of some coworkers in the software department of the brokerage I worked for, I started to learn C# and JavaScript. Eventually, I got my first professional programming job and the rest is history!

My story isn't unique at Auth0, though. Let's hear from some of my amazing colleagues about their backgrounds and how they got into tech.

<include src="ProfileCard" picture="https://cdn.auth0.com/blog/auziros/kris-babbish.jpg" name="Kris Babbish" title="Developer Support Engineer" team="Technical Support" location="Washington, United States" body="I’d always been 'into computers' but as a hobby. I didn’t study CS. I studied language and linguistics (Japanese focus) in undergrad, worked teaching/translating in Japan for a bit, assistant teaching in the US for a couple years, 911/dispatch for a bit. During, I was a hobbyist, learning Python, etc, and eventually switched into software support. I’ve taken a handful of CS classes since then and am currently a Developer Support Engineer."/>

<include src="ProfileCard" picture="https://cdn.auth0.com/blog/auziros/jorge-fatta-2.jpg" name="Jorge Fatta" title="Engineering Lead" team="Engineering" location="Argentina" body="I studied Architecture at the University of Buenos Aires for ~3 years (between 2001 and 2004) before realizing that computers and programming is my true passion. From time to time I identify some common points between both disciplines, especially regarding the creative process. I have really good memories as an architecture student “iterating” on building mock-ups (models) and CAD designs."/>

<include src="ProfileCard" picture="https://cdn.auth0.com/blog/auziros/tim-ferrell-3.png" name="Tim Ferrell" title="Engineer" team="Engineering R&D" location="Florida, United States" body="I used to book talent for a few music and concert venues before deciding that it wasn’t the right path for me."/>

<include src="ProfileCard" picture="https://cdn.auth0.com/blog/auziros/geoff-goodman.png" name="Geoff Goodman" title="Technical Development Lead" team="Engineering" location="Quebec, Canada" body="Growing up, my parents refused to buy us console gaming systems. All my friends had them and I just *loved* playing games. When we got an i386, I set myself on a quest to remedy this misfortune. The games I made just couldn't compare to Mario, but what fascinated me was that I could learn to build my own. That led me to teach myself QBasic and I've been programming as a hobby ever since. However, I had this misguided idea that being a professional programmer meant a life of endless slog that would kill this passion I had in me. I didn't want any part of that, so naturally I became an accountant. I was, of course, very wrong in my assessment and choice of career path but always kept my passion for programming. Building Plunker as a way to give myself a better jsFiddle led to a serendipitous series of accidents, new friends and new opportunities. It helped me discover that the sort of work environment we have here at Auth0 actually existed and that I might be able to be a part of it."/>

<include src="ProfileCard" picture="https://cdn.auth0.com/blog/auziros/karen-hajioannou.jpg" name="Karen Hajioannou" title="Developer Support Engineer" team="Technical Support" location="Pennsylvania, United States" body="I originally went to school for biology. In my last semester, I took a JavaScript course in lieu of an Excel course and it really sparked my interest in development. Unfortunately, it was too late to change majors, but months later after getting my first laboratory position as a support scientist, I would go home at night and use online resources to further my development skills. In 7 months, I was able to secure a job as a junior software developer and it grew from there."/>

<include src="ProfileCard" picture="https://cdn.auth0.com/blog/auziros/sarah-kapehe-jorgenson.jpg" name="Sarah Kapehe Jorgenson" title="R&D Content Engineer" team="Content Marketing" location="Nevada, United States" body="For six years, I worked as a flight attendant and a flight attendant instructor for a major US airline. I wanted to further my horizons so I started looking around at getting a masters, certificate, etc. I found a coding bootcamp and knew instantly that my next step was going to be learning code. After graduating from my bootcamp, I was a Software Developer for a small start up in the Las Vegas valley. I soon found out from a friend that Auth0 was hiring R&D Content Engineers; I instantly knew that coding and writing about/teaching that code was where I needed to be. I get to further my horizons every single day now!"/>

<include src="ProfileCard" picture="https://cdn.auth0.com/blog/auziros/kim-maida.jpg" name="Kim Maida" title="Community & Technical Content Manager" team="Content Marketing" location="Michigan, United States" body="I learned to code as a hobby when I was a kid, but I earned my BSc in Zoology: Animal Behavior & Neurobiology and did field research every summer. Although I designed and built websites freelance through college, for some reason it never occurred to me to go into tech as a career! When I decided I didn’t want to get a PhD in biology, I returned to college with a major in Human Biology and a focus in Nutrition & Dietetics. While back in school, I got a job with my university doing web development. I then realized that was my calling, switched majors to Digital Media & Web, and had a web development job with an agency before I completed that second degree."/>

<include src="ProfileCard" picture="https://cdn.auth0.com/blog/auziros/marius-mogyorosi.jpg" name="Marius Mogyorosi" title="Product Security Engineer" team="Security & Operations" location="Ohio, United States" body="I actually started in - and was quickly driven away from - Computer Science before exploring a variety of subjects and landing in Latin American and Luso-Brazilian literature. While I didn't get my first job that way, I did acquire skills whose value I recognize every day. Eventually, I tapped back into my technical side, jumped into Network Administration, did get my first job, and with a well-rounded background, was naturally attracted to Information Security."/>

<include src="ProfileCard" picture="https://cdn.auth0.com/blog/auziros/carlos-mostek-2.png" name="Carlos Mostek" title="Sr. Solution Architect" team="Technical Field" location="Minnesota, United States" body="I got an aerospace engineering degree, but enjoyed coding as much or more than solving the problems themselves.  I went with modeling and simulation as a starting point, then pushed into more traditional software dev later."/>

<include src="ProfileCard" picture="https://cdn.auth0.com/blog/auziros/dasha-nikitina.jpg" name="Dasha Nikitina" title="UI Engineer" team="Marketing Engineering" location="Colorado, United States" body="I spent about 7 years working in NYC in the marketing/advertising industry. I studied business in college and was initially drawn to marketing because of the way it integrated creative and analytical thinking. I was always interested in learning how to code but for a long time never considered it as an option. Once I let go of everything that was holding me back there was no turning back. I am very happy with where I am now, learning and coding every day, working for a great company and being challenged."/>

<include src="ProfileCard" picture="https://cdn.auth0.com/blog/auziros/jose-antonio-rey.jpg" name="Jose Antonio Rey" title="Sr. Developer Support Engineer" team="Technical Support" location="Peru" body="I'm currently studying A/V production, but started my journey as a community manager, then moved on to being more of an events organizer (which also involved some DevRel), and now working as a Developer Support Engineer."/>

## Conclusion (and Some Inspiration)

It's clear that a formal degree in computer science is no longer the only path into tech. If you're looking at switching to tech and need some inspiration, I've got a few podcast recommendations for you:

- First, check out [Breaking Into Startups](https://breakingintostartups.com/). They also have a free course called the
[5 Step Challenge](https://breakingintostartups.teachable.com/p/5-step-challenge) you can check out. 
- Next, [Kyle Shevlin](https://twitter.com/kyleshevlin) has a great podcast called [Second Career Devs](https://secondcareerdevs.com/) that features interviews of folks who have changed careers into development. You can catch Auth0 Developer Evangelist [Bobby Johnson](https://secondcareerdevs.com/episodes/bobby-johnson) and [myself](https://secondcareerdevs.com/episodes/sam-julien) on there! 
- Finally, [DevChat.tv](https://devchat.tv) has [My Angular Story](https://devchat.tv/devchattv_show/my-angular-story/) and [My JavaScript Story](https://devchat.tv/devchattv_show/my-javascript-story/). Not all of the guests have informal backgrounds, but it's always interesting to hear people's stories. [Kim Maida](https://devchat.tv/my-angular-story/mas-034-kim-maida/) and [myself](https://devchat.tv/my-angular-story/mas-043-sam-julien/) have both been on My Angular Story.

<include src="TweetQuote" quoteText="A formal degree in computer science is no longer a requirement to get a job in tech."/>

Good luck on your journey and don't forget &mdash; [we're hiring](https://auth0.com/careers)!

<include src="asides/AboutAuth0" />